[casual_games] C to J2ME tools

Sun Jan 29 14:20:19 EST 2006

I think you are right about treating it as a different SKU - mostly I 
was pondering a J2ME port if the product is moderately successful but 
not so successful that I can just sell off (or manage the porting of) 
the IP.  This was all brought about seeing J2ME games for sale on the 
web - my guess is that isn't a very financially viable market but it is 
a way to release games outside of the various cell phone market gatekeepers.

I enjoyed the line /"hopefully not you" - /my feelings exactly :->).  On 
a technical note I code my games to an abstraction layer that has been 
ported to S60 (see Colony for NGage) but those devices are all just so 
tweaky that I am looking for a cleaner solution so I can implement the 
designs that interest me on the PC side (what I enjoy doing in the 
environment I like to work in) and not have to remember all of the 
details of many handheld devices each time porting season rolls around.

Anyhow, thanks for the thoughts - hopefully the blockbuster success of 
my next opus will mean that I can see my design on a cellphone without 
having to roll code myself.

Lennard Feddersen
CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
www.RustyAxe.com

Lennard at RustyAxe.com
P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7

Allan Simonsen wrote:

>Probably more usefull to think of it as a totally
>different SKU, kinda like porting a franchise from PS2
>to GBA :) 
>
>This is especially true on J2ME platforms, which
>suffers from all kinds of interesting artefacts; both
>in how the API operates, and in
>size/speed/memory/screen restrictions. Compile once,
>run anywhere....muahahahah.
>
>In general, the gatekeepers to this market
>(essentially the Telcos and the Aggregators) are
>looking for these SKUs:
>
>- S40 J2ME Version (64kb should be enough for anyone)
>- S60 J2ME Version (128kb, faster CPU, larger screen)
>- high-end J2ME (pick the showcase phone of the last 6
>months)
>- BREW Low-end (equivalent specs to S60)
>- BREW High-end (equivalent to showcase J2ME)
>
>If they like what they see, someone (hopefully not
>you) will be asked to branch this into the 100+ other
>phone-models on the market.
>
>In addition, the gatekeeper may ask for DOJA or
>SYMBIAN versions of popular titles.
>
>BREW is a C++ API for handphones sold in US and Korea.
>
>J2ME is used in AsiaPac, Europe and America
>
>DOJA is an enhanved flavour of J2ME, used in Japan and
>by other telcos pushing DOCOMO content.
>
>SYMBIAN is a 'high-performance' C++ environment for
>smartphones, where you can actually do pretty decent
>development performance. The NGage was essentially a
>S60 phone running on SYMBIAN. 
>
>As you can see; developing in C and porting to J2ME
>will be the least of your worry; the bulk of it comes
>in developing a flexible architecture that abstracts
>the 100+ SKUs into a single interface, and does so in
>an application that can fit inside a 64KB JAR file :)
>
>Allan
>
>  
>
>>Thanks for the thoughts Allan.  I'll only do a
>>mobile version if the PC 
>>SKU is doing well so it would be a port of a
>>finalized game where 
>>performance is a non-issue.  Last I looked at the
>>cellphones they were 
>>getting pretty capable - is 64K really an important
>>commercial threshold?
>>
>>Lennard Feddersen
>>CEO, Rusty Axe Games, Inc.
>>www.RustyAxe.com
>>
>>Lennard at RustyAxe.com
>>P. 250-635-7623 F. 1-309-422-2466
>>3521 Dogwood, Terrace, BC, Canada, V8G-4Y7
>>
>>
>>
>>Allan Simonsen wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>One project we were involved in used some form of
>>>      
>>>
>>C++
>>    
>>
>>>-> J2ME tool to convert between BREW and J2ME. It
>>>kinda works, but you'll need to continously
>>>      
>>>
>>hand-tweak
>>    
>>
>>>it around the things that DIDN'T. For us it was
>>>      
>>>
>>almost
>>    
>>
>>>worth it, since we were developing in parallell for
>>>both platforms, but...
>>>
>>>- If you're ONLY doing the mobile platform, go
>>>straight to J2ME, do not pass C++.
>>>
>>>- You'd need to hand-code a low-level abstraction
>>>      
>>>
>>API,
>>    
>>
>>>since the converter only understands how to change
>>>syntactic sugar and basic types, not how to blit a
>>>sprite or load a sound.
>>>
>>>- Handphone games have totally different
>>>      
>>>
>>restrictions
>>    
>>
>>>than casual games for the PC; especially the sub
>>>      
>>>
>>64kb
>>    
>>
>>>platforms (S40 J2ME), where you'll end up harcoding
>>>everything in 3-5 classes to avoid the per-class
>>>overhead. NOT the way you want to think when coding
>>>for the PC.
>>>
>>>- Handphone games spend a lot of energy abstracting
>>>screensize and phone capabilites so it will run
>>>      
>>>
>>nicely
>>    
>>
>>>on the hundreds of different platforms. This is a
>>>      
>>>
>>pain
>>    
>>
>>>when you're prototyping a design idea. It also
>>>involves making a significant investment in your
>>>art-pipeline (to handle somewhere between 3-10
>>>different base-SKUs at coding-time). 
>>>
>>>My personal recommendation would be to ignore
>>>handphones during development, and then spend the
>>>      
>>>
>>time
>>    
>>
>>>after the PC game shipped on developing the mobile
>>>game, once gameplay and look is nailed down. 
>>>
>>>Alternatively, there are a bunch of low-cost
>>>      
>>>
>>porting
>>    
>>
>>>houses that will take your PC game and churn out a
>>>J2ME + BREW multi-SKU product; that might be more
>>>      
>>>
>>of a
>>    
>>
>>>plan if your game is a success.
>>>
>>>Allan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- Lennard Feddersen <Lennard at RustyAxe.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Does anybody have any experience with automated C
>>>>        
>>>>
>>to
>>    
>>
>>>>J2ME style tools? 
>>>>I'm in the early days of my next project and think
>>>>it would fit well on 
>>>>cell phones but would prefer to do my PC coding in
>>>>C.
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Allan Simonsen                   
>>>      
>>>
>>simonsen at rocketmail.com
>>    
>>
>>>ICQ# 16606984
>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>>    
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>-- 
>>
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>
>
>
>Allan Simonsen                    simonsen at rocketmail.com
>ICQ# 16606984
>
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