[casual_games] More good news on Vista!

[Arthur Humphrey]

We explored using a similar path but found that the folder was hidden. Is 
that 'program data' path hidden on Vista? Does this translate to the 
application data folder on XP (which _is_ hidden, I believe)?

Even some of our very 'casual' users like to access their savegame data to 
backup, move, revert, etc. We would be very reluctant to put it in a hidden 
folder.

Arthur

At 02:19 PM 1/25/2007 -0800, you wrote:


>If save game data is written to the proper location it isn't virtualized

>and this issue will not arise.

>

>Example:

>

>C:\progam data\(publisher name)\(developer name)\(game name)\"save data"

>

>It's not as convenient or easy to find as "program files" on XP machines

>but you should be able to copy save game data to and from a USB drive

>for these locations.

>

>Note: the above will also address problems with config files which are

>created by games on first run and that crash on vista on subsequent

>trials.

>

>--Dave

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org

>[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Arthur Humphrey

>Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:49 PM

>To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List

>Subject: Re: [casual_games] More good news on Vista!

>

>We are seeing exactly this behavior (with unwrapped installs of our

>games).

>When a user installs the game in Vista or XP LUA, they need an Admin

>password. Then during that play session the savegame files are not going

>

>into the LUA user's folder, and when they play the game later (after a

>reboot) it works fine but acts like it is the first time is had been

>run.

>This is probably, at the very least, something we'll want to bring to

>the

>user's attention when they install or first run the game.

>

>The jumpdrive problem has quite a few possible solutions but I have not

>found a perfect one.

>

>Arthur

>

>At 10:58 AM 1/25/2007 -0800, you wrote:

>

> >Just a point on the save game: In vista if a game writes data such as

> >save games or config files to the program files directory these will

> >eventually get virtualized per user under Vista which can create

> >problems with users "losing" this data or even game crashes.

> >

> >For example if a user runs a game immediately after install (an option

> >provided by many titles) they will be running with elevated permissions

> >and any "program files" save data will not be virtualized on the first

> >run.

> >

> >However, the next time they come back to play the game it will launch

> >with non-elevated permissions and the data written to program files

> >*will* be virtualized per user and from their perspective the save game

> >data at this point has disappeared--so the users who liked to do the

> >jump drive solution will not be able to use it the same way they had

> >previously in any case.

> >

> >Many failure modes that we are seeing for games and their DRM occur on

> >second run--frequently it just won't launch: to the user this clicking

> >on the icon and having nothing happen.

> >

> >For the games this is often related the elevation issues noted above.

> >We're not always sure which link in the chain is breaking to cause the

> >DRM and game client failures we are seeing (sometimes in can be hard to

> >tell if it's the game or the DRM) but we do know from our own

>experience

> >that there is real engineering required to provide reliable and smooth

> >functioning DRM and game client solutions with a good user experience

>in

> >Vista.

> >

> >--Dave

> >

> >

> >

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From: casual_games-bounces at igda.org

> >[mailto:casual_games-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Arthur Humphrey

> >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:33 AM

> >To: IGDA Casual Games SIG Mailing List

> >Subject: Re: [casual_games] More good news on Vista!

> >

> >Our games broke in XP LUA, and ran well in Vista. On XP LUA our users

> >were prevented from saving their games in Program Files and so the game

> >broke, while on Vista a handle was created in Program Files and the

> >saves were automatically created in the correct users directory. One

> >point for Vista, I guess.

> >

> >Still we have gone ahead and changed it so our games save correctly

>into

> >the user's path on all operating systems. Now we are already getting

> >complaints from testers who liked to bring our games (and the game

> >progress) back and forth to work on a jumpdrive. Some just used to keep

> >the game on that jumpdrive at all times. This is no longer convenient

> >for them with the new savegame paths.

> >

> >Arthur

> >

> >At 12:05 AM 1/25/2007 -0800, you wrote:

> >

> >

> >         Our QA labs are doing a light test sweep of the major casual

> >gaming portals to see which ones are impacted severely by Vista.  It

> >looks like Microsoft managed to break Trymedia DRM with Vista so it's

> >likely that most if not all Trymedia wrapped games are broken under

> >Vista.  This is consistent with our analaysis that at least 50% of the

> >casual games currently posted on the major gaming portals are broken.

> >Our labs also report that RealArcade itself is broken by Vista.  If I'm

> >not mistaken all the casual games hosted by Oberon on MSN are based on

> >Trymedia DRM.  It will be interesting to see if Microsofts own casual

> >game offering is actually Vista ready.

> >

> >         Since a lot of small developers don't appear to have access to

> >Vista builds yet we suggest that you try your games under a Windows XP

> >LUA account.  If it breaks there, it certainly breaks in Vista.

> >

> >         -Alex

> >         <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =

> >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

> >

> >________________________________

> >

> >         From: macrovision at mkt1.macrovision.com

> >[mailto:macrovision at mkt1.macrovision.com]

> >         Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:19 PM

> >         To: WildTangent Packaging

> >         Subject: [Possible SPAM] ActiveMARK Windows <?xml:namespace

> >prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Vista

> >Communication

> >         Importance: Low

> >

> >

> >         2299aa.jpg

> >

> >         ActiveMARK Windows Vista Communication

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> >

> >         Feedback

> ><http://mktg.macrovision.com/mk/get?_EC=_bWbefB7rXaOX0eyvFCUeq>

> >

> >         229a08.jpg

> >

> >         Dear WildTangent ,

> >         You should have received the communication below on December

>27,

> >2006. If you have not yet had a chance to respond, we urge you to do so

> >by January 15, 2007. Should you have any questions about the below,

> >please contact: AM_Vista at macrovision.com

> ><mailto:AM_Vista at macrovision.com> .

> >         Microsoft(r) has released the Windows Vista operating system

>to

> >manufacturing. It includes many new security enhancements which impact

> >security-oriented technology such as Macrovision's ActiveMARK(tm). To

> >continue providing our customers with the best DRM solution for Windows

> >Vista, we have been working closely with Microsoft to develop a new

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> >         We are writing to advise you of the current status of our

> >technology in the context of Windows Vista and request that you verify

> >your unprotected application(s) are compatible with Windows Vista and

> >perform to your satisfaction.

> >         Games packaged with ActiveMARK versions 5.5 and earlier are

> >known to be incompatible with Windows Vista due to increased security

> >features in the operating system. We have worked with Microsoft to

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> >         For all new packaging projects we strongly recommend that you

> >use ActiveMARK 2007 to help ensure your titles are compatible with

> >Windows Vista. ActiveMARK 2007 has been engineered to conform to the

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> >         Our initial testing has shown that some unprotected

>applications

> >do not run properly on Windows Vista due to issues independent of

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>RTM)

> >as a Standard User. After you complete these tests, send your feedback

> >to http://mktg.macrovision.com/mk/get/AM_VISTA

> ><http://mktg.macrovision.com/mk/get?_EC=X3O_-yq58eun6aRweyKt5M> .

> >         Please try to complete all testing and send feedback by

>January

> >15, 2007. This will help us compile our broader scoping of affected

> >titles. Your prompt feedback at

> >http://mktg.macrovision.com/mk/get/AM_VISTA

> ><http://mktg.macrovision.com/mk/get?_EC=mydnD2zuzLieimZSy_paAu>  will

> >allow us to better support you. During this transition, we will be

> >following up again with additional best practices for Windows Vista.

> >         If you need to submit testing for an extensive number of

>titles,

> >please contact us immediately at AM_Vista at macrovision.com

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> >         Sincerely,

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