[game_edu] game_edu Digest, Vol 71, Issue 4
Michael Lubker
snowballz.game at gmail.com
Thu Aug 12 17:03:23 EDT 2010
How about "Student and Teacher Editions" of games that include design
docs, videos, etc. ?
~M
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:50 PM, <game_edu-request at igda.org> wrote:
> Send game_edu mailing list submissions to
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>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> game_edu-request at igda.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> game_edu-owner at igda.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of game_edu digest..."
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> IGDA Education SIG
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: What would you want from a game company? (Gregory Walek)
> 2. Re: What would you want from a game company? (Anthony Hart-Jones)
> 3. Re: What would you want from a game company? (Rob Holt)
> 4. Re: What would you want from a game company? (Ian Schreiber)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 13:18:00 -0400
> From: "Gregory Walek" <gwalek at ccsnh.edu>
> Subject: Re: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
> To: "IGDA Game Education Listserv" <game_edu at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <AEDAE4F3E9FF654BB9EC9EADA82BC4540243DA26 at ex5.tec.nh.us>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> A lot of what I'm writing deals with school-studio relations. Where I
> think what Ian is trying to leverage the IGDA for is to break open door
> and change expectations from studios. (If I got this wrong Ian, please
> clarify ) What we need to bang into their heads: We're building their
> future employees. They should have a stake in this.
>
>
>
>
>
> The best use of their time (for us) is we need to have them share their
> knowledge.
>
> How does take place?
>
>
>
> * Having representatives on an industry board to review and overview
> curriculum and technology. Things change. 3 years ago Zynga was hatching
> from its shell. 2 years before that We were looking at the 360, Wii, and
> PS3 launches. Just before that, Per-Pixel-Lighting and normal map
> goodness was the big change. Z-brush and then mudbrush would gain
> traction as artist tools. (This is not intended as a complete history
> lecture, but examples). We need them to inform us what is going on and
> adapt to it.
>
>
>
> * Supporting Faculty with how they use technology. This is critical for
> faculty with no (or very little) industry experience. It's also needed
> for experienced faculty as well. For experience faculty, they might have
> a large amount of experience in an engine which is under a lock and key
> and unavailable in any form for non-commercial or academic use. That's
> time and effort to get back up to speed with a new engine, or to pave
> over the potholes in their knowledge. Better to have support, than to do
> it alone.
>
>
>
> * Evaluating student work and providing feedback to students and
> faculty. One way to facilitate that is work with them to schedule "show
> of games" at the end of the term. Be flexible! You'll most likely get
> the majority of your industry guests after they get off work. Again,
> work with them on time.
>
>
> * Having them come talk to students. There's experts out there. It's
> really helpful to hear a topic from someone OTHER than the normal
> lecturer. Hearing from HR about how to get in the door is great. (And
> HR is going to ask for resumes!). If you do game jams (like the Global
> Game Jam) or other events having someone to give the kick
> off\keynote\rah-rah let's get going speech in person is helpful.
>
>
>
>
>
> Greg Walek
>
> NHTI - AGGP
>
>
>
>
>
> From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On
> Behalf Of Ian Schreiber
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:40 PM
> To: game_edu at igda.org
> Subject: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Just had an interesting discussion with a colleague about potential
> value that a large game company (something like EA, Blizzard, Zynga,
> etc.) could offer schools on a large scale.
>
> I realize there is always the danger that the "value" could be a
> thinly-veiled sales pitch for "how to educate your students to get hired
> at our studio, screw liberal arts and screw the rest of the industry"...
> but for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume it's not like
> that, that this would be a genuine offer of assistance.
>
> This could be anything: resources for students, resources for faculty,
> whatever. Assume an offer of time, not money. (Saying "they could give a
> generous grant to our institution" is too easy and too obvious :-)
>
> What kinds of things could a game company offer that would make you
> absolutely thrilled if you saw it on, say, this mailing list? I had my
> own ideas, but would be interested in seeing other opinions.
>
> If you're wondering why I'm asking, it's because I get the feeling that
> a lot of things that would be of huge value to us collectively are
> things that some companies would be very willing to give in the name of
> improving game education, and it's just a matter of using the strength
> of our numbers (and the numbers of the IGDA in general) to make it
> happen. So far most of these sorts of academic-industry collaborations
> have been between a single school and a single studio, which just means
> that every one of us has to reinvent the wheel with every studio. It'd
> be nice to find a better way.
>
> Thanks,
> - Ian
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_edu/attachments/20100812/086898cc/attachment.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:39:54 +0100
> From: Anthony Hart-Jones <tony at dragonstalon.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv <game_edu at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <4C6431EA.3060402 at dragonstalon.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> You can sometimes get hold of them (like the infamous Planescape:
> Torment pitch document), if you know where to look. More interesting is
> the Valve approach of including a developer commentary within the game.
> Actually, Monkey Island 2 has that too on Steam.
>
> It feels like cheese, but I actually think they are quite an
> accessible way of learning about the game.
>
> On 12/08/2010 16:55, Michael Lubker wrote:
>> Would be very interesting to see games release with "design doc
>> attached" in DOC or whatever other digital forms are appropriate.
>>
>> Now that would be a collector's edition worth buying!
>>
>> ~M
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:26 AM, <game_edu-request at igda.org> wrote:
>>> Send game_edu mailing list submissions to
>>> game_edu at igda.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> game_edu-request at igda.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> game_edu-owner at igda.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of game_edu digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> IGDA Education SIG
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. What would you want from a game company? (Ian Schreiber)
>>> 2. Re: What would you want from a game company? (Dan Carreker)
>>> 3. Re: What would you want from a game company? (Simon Rozner)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
>>> From: Ian Schreiber <ai864 at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
>>> To: game_edu at igda.org
>>> Message-ID: <258762.38248.qm at web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Just had an interesting discussion with a colleague about potential value that a
>>> large game company (something like EA, Blizzard, Zynga, etc.) could offer
>>> schools on a large scale.
>>>
>>> I realize there is always the danger that the "value" could be a thinly-veiled
>>> sales pitch for "how to educate your students to get hired at our studio, screw
>>> liberal arts and screw the rest of the industry"... but for the purposes of this
>>> discussion, let's assume it's not like that, that this would be a genuine offer
>>> of assistance.
>>>
>>> This could be anything: resources for students, resources for faculty, whatever.
>>> Assume an offer of time, not money. (Saying "they could give a generous grant to
>>> our institution" is too easy and too obvious :-)
>>>
>>> What kinds of things could a game company offer that would make you absolutely
>>> thrilled if you saw it on, say, this mailing list? I had my own ideas, but would
>>> be interested in seeing other opinions.
>>>
>>> If you're wondering why I'm asking, it's because I get the feeling that a lot of
>>> things that would be of huge value to us collectively are things that some
>>> companies would be very willing to give in the name of improving game education,
>>> and it's just a matter of using the strength of our numbers (and the numbers of
>>> the IGDA in general) to make it happen. So far most of these sorts of
>>> academic-industry collaborations have been between a single school and a single
>>> studio, which just means that every one of us has to reinvent the wheel with
>>> every studio. It'd be nice to find a better way.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> - Ian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_edu/attachments/20100811/c6091b25/attachment.htm>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 02:05:57 -0700
>>> From: "Dan Carreker" <DanC at NarrativeDesigns.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
>>> To: "'IGDA Game Education Listserv'" <game_edu at igda.org>
>>> Message-ID: <FB1B11E038764A37A4356B73508F5A87 at DanPC>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Hey Ian,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll tell you the one thing that's been on my mind re: resources: Sample
>>> games.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would love to see many of the classic and pioneering games bundled for use
>>> by schools. And I believe there are two feasible means for this to come
>>> about.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One is to release education bundles. In 2000, PC Gamer Magazine released a
>>> free CD in one of their issues with 12 classic games (X-Com, Ultima I, Wing
>>> Commander, Duke Nuke-em, etc.) Each of these were tested by the developers
>>> to make sure they were compatible with modern hardware and treated -- by
>>> Activision (where I worked at the time) at least -- as an OEM product. I see
>>> no reason why a curriculum publisher could not arrange a similar deal. It
>>> would likely be easiest to release one bundle per company, i.e. an EA pack,
>>> an Activision pack, etc. but as long as the games are older than 3-5 years I
>>> doubt it would be very expensive. Furthermore, it could be done as a license
>>> agreement based on the number of computers encouraging bulk sales of games
>>> that are doing nothing but sitting in a vault somewhere.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alternatively, a service such as Steam could host games that the schools'
>>> could license. Of course they do this now, but most of the games are 1)
>>> fairly new and 2) priced a little more expensive than I think most schools
>>> could afford (once you start talking about multiple accounts for dozens of
>>> games.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The REAL crown though would be samples of builds at various stages. I know
>>> these are usually VERY guarded by the companies, but you can learn a lot
>>> about the design challenges and the design process when you see how the game
>>> evolve over their development and having various sample buggy versions of a
>>> the level from game would be fantastic.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are plenty of other things I think would be beneficial to school I
>>> teach at, but this would be the one thing that would get me the most
>>> excited. I've even been toying with the idea of looking for investors to
>>> pursue this, but all the entrepreneurs I know are very tight with their
>>> finances right now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --Dan Carreker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> From: Ian Schreiber [mailto:ai864 at yahoo.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:40 PM
>>> To: game_edu at igda.org
>>> Subject: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Just had an interesting discussion with a colleague about potential value
>>> that a large game company (something like EA, Blizzard, Zynga, etc.) could
>>> offer schools on a large scale.
>>>
>>> I realize there is always the danger that the "value" could be a
>>> thinly-veiled sales pitch for "how to educate your students to get hired at
>>> our studio, screw liberal arts and screw the rest of the industry"... but
>>> for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume it's not like that, that
>>> this would be a genuine offer of assistance.
>>>
>>> This could be anything: resources for students, resources for faculty,
>>> whatever. Assume an offer of time, not money. (Saying "they could give a
>>> generous grant to our institution" is too easy and too obvious :-)
>>>
>>> What kinds of things could a game company offer that would make you
>>> absolutely thrilled if you saw it on, say, this mailing list? I had my own
>>> ideas, but would be interested in seeing other opinions.
>>>
>>> If you're wondering why I'm asking, it's because I get the feeling that a
>>> lot of things that would be of huge value to us collectively are things that
>>> some companies would be very willing to give in the name of improving game
>>> education, and it's just a matter of using the strength of our numbers (and
>>> the numbers of the IGDA in general) to make it happen. So far most of these
>>> sorts of academic-industry collaborations have been between a single school
>>> and a single studio, which just means that every one of us has to reinvent
>>> the wheel with every studio. It'd be nice to find a better way.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> - Ian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_edu/attachments/20100812/05366526/attachment-0001.html>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:19:59 +0800
>>> From: Simon Rozner <infonaut at gameonaut.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
>>> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv <game_edu at igda.org>
>>> Message-ID: <75F4B964-37DF-4517-836C-7F163F63BED9 at gameonaut.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="cp932"; Format="flowed";
>>> DelSp="yes"
>>>
>>> Hi Ian,
>>> thanks for bringing this up. And Dan, gret suggestion.
>>>
>>> One thing I think would be hugely interesting to have are design and
>>> technical docs at various stages. Even though same great ones are out
>>> there many are either incomplete and never show their evolution. To my
>>> students this would be fantastic to see and discuss and show design
>>> decisions. Also pre beta builds before and after a change was made
>>> would be superb so show changes in action. Now surely that would be
>>> difficult for copyrights and licensing etc issues.
>>>
>>> Will think of more.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Simon
>>>
>>> DigiPen Singapore
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 12-Aug-2010, at 17:05, "Dan Carreker" <DanC at NarrativeDesigns.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Ian,
>>>>
>>>> I?ll tell you the one thing that?s been on my mind re: resources: Sa
>>>> mple games.
>>>>
>>>> I would love to see many of the classic and pioneering games bundled
>>>> for use by schools. And I believe there are two feasible means for
>>>> this to come about.
>>>>
>>>> One is to release education bundles. In 2000, PC Gamer Magazine
>>>> released a free CD in one of their issues with 12 classic games (X-
>>>> Com, Ultima I, Wing Commander, Duke Nuke-em, etc.) Each of these
>>>> were tested by the developers to make sure they were compatible with
>>>> modern hardware and treated -- by Activision (where I worked at the
>>>> time) at least -- as an OEM product. I see no reason why a
>>>> curriculum publisher could not arrange a similar deal. It would
>>>> likely be easiest to release one bundle per company, i.e. an EA
>>>> pack, an Activision pack, etc. but as long as the games are older
>>>> than 3-5 years I doubt it would be very expensive. Furthermore, it
>>>> could be done as a license agreement based on the number of
>>>> computers encouraging bulk sales of games that are doing nothing but
>>>> sitting in a vault somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, a service such as Steam could host games that the
>>>> schools? could license. Of course they do this now, but most of the
>>>> games are 1) fairly new and 2) priced a little more expensive than I
>>>> think most schools could afford (once you start talking about multi
>>>> ple accounts for dozens of games.)
>>>>
>>>> The REAL crown though would be samples of builds at various stages.
>>>> I know these are usually VERY guarded by the companies, but you can
>>>> learn a lot about the design challenges and the design process when
>>>> you see how the game evolve over their development and having
>>>> various sample buggy versions of a the level from game would be
>>>> fantastic.
>>>>
>>>> There are plenty of other things I think would be beneficial to
>>>> school I teach at, but this would be the one thing that would get me
>>>> the most excited. I?ve even been toying with the idea of looking for
>>>> investors to pursue this, but all the entrepreneurs I know are very
>>>> tight with their finances right now.
>>>>
>>>> --Dan Carreker
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Ian Schreiber [mailto:ai864 at yahoo.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:40 PM
>>>> To: game_edu at igda.org
>>>> Subject: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Just had an interesting discussion with a colleague about potential
>>>> value that a large game company (something like EA, Blizzard, Zynga,
>>>> etc.) could offer schools on a large scale.
>>>>
>>>> I realize there is always the danger that the "value" could be a
>>>> thinly-veiled sales pitch for "how to educate your students to get
>>>> hired at our studio, screw liberal arts and screw the rest of the
>>>> industry"... but for the purposes of this discussion, let's assume
>>>> it's not like that, that this would be a genuine offer of assistance.
>>>>
>>>> This could be anything: resources for students, resources for
>>>> faculty, whatever. Assume an offer of time, not money. (Saying "they
>>>> could give a generous grant to our institution" is too easy and too
>>>> obvious :-)
>>>>
>>>> What kinds of things could a game company offer that would make you
>>>> absolutely thrilled if you saw it on, say, this mailing list? I had
>>>> my own ideas, but would be interested in seeing other opinions.
>>>>
>>>> If you're wondering why I'm asking, it's because I get the feeling
>>>> that a lot of things that would be of huge value to us collectively
>>>> are things that some companies would be very willing to give in the
>>>> name of improving game education, and it's just a matter of using
>>>> the strength of our numbers (and the numbers of the IGDA in general)
>>>> to make it happen. So far most of these sorts of academic-industry
>>>> collaborations have been between a single school and a single
>>>> studio, which just means that every one of us has to reinvent the
>>>> wheel with every studio. It'd be nice to find a better way.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> - Ian
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_edu mailing list
>>>> game_edu at igda.org
>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_edu mailing list
>>> game_edu at igda.org
>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu
>>>
>>>
>>> End of game_edu Digest, Vol 71, Issue 2
>>> ***************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:31:42 -0400
> From: Rob Holt <autodot at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
> To: game_edu at igda.org
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimTNNsCNDp0T7=c0GHqEWFRUWaUugrF_0H4SPsj at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Re: What would you want from a game company? (Dan Carreker)
>
> Actually joining SourceU is VERY reasonable for schools & comes with
> the Source Code for both the Source Engine
> and Alien Swarm (L4D engine round one / free for everyone now anyway).
>
> The only downside is the students get all the Valve published games
> too...quite a distraction.
>
> http://source.valvesoftware.com/sourcesdk/sourceu.php
>
>
> -Robertson Holt
> TriOS College
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:50:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ian Schreiber <ai864 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv <game_edu at igda.org>
> Message-ID: <37552.15344.qm at web39708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Greg (and all),
>
> Based on some of the responses so far, I'd like to clarify something.
>
> A lot of requests are along the lines of "we would like it if more individual
> developers/studios built individual relationships with our school." This
> includes everything from guest speakers, to advisory board members, to judges of
> local competitions. This is great, and I'm sure it is something all of us are
> working on for our respective schools. But it's not what I'm looking for,
> because it doesn't scale. In fact, it's zero-sum: if EA's university outreach
> department can only visit 20 schools per year (or whatever) and you take up one
> of those slots, that's one less for the rest of us.
>
> So what I'm hoping to find here is something where one individual developer or
> one studio can do something that benefits ALL of us, all 100+ schools at the
> same time, from their one single action. The difference between an
> unlimited-seat online webinar versus a site visit, for example.
>
> I actually think there are some studios (and individuals) out there who really
> want to contribute to education. They don't need convincing; they know this is a
> win-win. But they ARE short on time, they have little or no experience in
> understanding the differences between industry and academia, and what they need
> from us is two things: guidance for HOW to contribute, and a conduit that lets
> them contribute to a lot of people (i.e. all of us, not just one of us) without
> having to repeat their efforts hundreds of times. IGDA can provide the conduit,
> but I'm looking for ideas on how to best leverage our "strength in numbers"
> here.
>
> Does that make it more clear, where I'm going with this?
>
> Thanks,
> - Ian
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gregory Walek <gwalek at ccsnh.edu>
> To: IGDA Game Education Listserv <game_edu at igda.org>
> Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 1:18:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [game_edu] What would you want from a game company?
>
>
> A lot of what I?m writing deals with school-studio relations. Where I think what
> Ian is trying to leverage the IGDA for is to break open door and change
> expectations from studios. (If I got this wrong Ian, please clarify ) What we
> need to bang into their heads: We?re building their future employees. They
> should have a stake in this.
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_edu/attachments/20100812/21e25188/attachment.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_edu mailing list
> game_edu at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu
>
>
> End of game_edu Digest, Vol 71, Issue 4
> ***************************************
>
--
~ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Benjamin
Franklin
~ "In conflict, straightforward actions generally lead to engagement,
surprising actions generally lead to victory." - Sun Tzu
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